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	<title>Comments on: Code4LibCon 2009: Timeline and IRC log</title>
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	<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45</link>
	<description>Really? Wow... That's Reallywow</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. No</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. No</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 18:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know I&#039;m late to these posts, but I&#039;ll chuck in my opinion about &quot;cliquishness&quot; from going to code4lib 2008 in Portland without having a long previous history with the conference or the cabal of the most active members.

Nearly everyone I met in person was quite welcoming and friendly.  It was remarkably free from the usual dick-waving contests that often happen in the tech world.  Even the back channel was civil and free from the the usual insecure snarkiness and rudeness you get in many online tech discussions.

I think some of the good qualities stem from the fact that people working in libraries are 1) often more socially/historically aware and 2) likely to encounter the same people repeatedly in their careers in the small-ish library technical community, so it really doesn&#039;t make sense for them to crap where they eat.

Having said all that, I felt there were a lot of in-jokes being thrown around by some of the core members of the community as deliberate shibboleths to show they were part of the too-cool-for-school group and that they were not that OTHER group.

The more relaxed community-oriented aspect, smaller conference size and focus on code are refreshing, but seem to breed more cliquishness  and in-group/out-group behavior than other conferences I&#039;ve been to.  I&#039;m not sure why this would be the case, but it seems to be from what I observed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m late to these posts, but I&#8217;ll chuck in my opinion about &#8220;cliquishness&#8221; from going to code4lib 2008 in Portland without having a long previous history with the conference or the cabal of the most active members.</p>
<p>Nearly everyone I met in person was quite welcoming and friendly.  It was remarkably free from the usual dick-waving contests that often happen in the tech world.  Even the back channel was civil and free from the the usual insecure snarkiness and rudeness you get in many online tech discussions.</p>
<p>I think some of the good qualities stem from the fact that people working in libraries are 1) often more socially/historically aware and 2) likely to encounter the same people repeatedly in their careers in the small-ish library technical community, so it really doesn&#8217;t make sense for them to crap where they eat.</p>
<p>Having said all that, I felt there were a lot of in-jokes being thrown around by some of the core members of the community as deliberate shibboleths to show they were part of the too-cool-for-school group and that they were not that OTHER group.</p>
<p>The more relaxed community-oriented aspect, smaller conference size and focus on code are refreshing, but seem to breed more cliquishness  and in-group/out-group behavior than other conferences I&#8217;ve been to.  I&#8217;m not sure why this would be the case, but it seems to be from what I observed.</p>
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		<title>By: lbjay</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>lbjay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-30</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Timeline is back. Some python modules got lost during the last server upgrade. Sorry &#039;bout that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timeline is back. Some python modules got lost during the last server upgrade. Sorry &#8217;bout that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Rochkind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-29</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is the timeline still available? I get a 500 error when clicking on the link.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the timeline still available? I get a 500 error when clicking on the link.</p>
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		<title>By: Declan</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Declan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-23</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There were Moon Pie?  Dammit.  I bet all new people ate them. :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was thrilled to see so many hands up when it was asked how many new people there were.  I hope that Mark&#039;s initial talk about how to be social at code4lib helped.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have a sick and twisted plan to have everyone do a FOAF, then have an event where everyone stands in a three dimensional representation of the &quot;knows&quot; graph and then take anyone not connected out for a drink.  Hey, it&#039;s no geekier than that freakish Werewolf thingy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were Moon Pie?  Dammit.  I bet all new people ate them. <img src='http://blog.reallywow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I was thrilled to see so many hands up when it was asked how many new people there were.  I hope that Mark&#39;s initial talk about how to be social at code4lib helped.</p>
<p>I have a sick and twisted plan to have everyone do a FOAF, then have an event where everyone stands in a three dimensional representation of the &#8220;knows&#8221; graph and then take anyone not connected out for a drink.  Hey, it&#39;s no geekier than that freakish Werewolf thingy.</p>
<p>D</p>
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		<title>By: rosy1280</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>rosy1280</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-22</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the problem is partially in what Jay says and partially in what the noobs say.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Noobs don&#039;t try hard enough because we&#039;re in a profession where people are inherently afraid to ask questions or say what they know (or don&#039;t know) and seem like an idiot.  After all we&#039;re paid to maintain things that we may know absolutely nothing about, but eventually we become experts on.  So as a Noob myself, I went forth and investigated the community, its practices, etc. and was able to insert myself and I feel like I&#039;ve been accepted.  But too be honest, if I hadn&#039;t investigated all of this in advance it would have been a completely different conference for me.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At the same time I think that the already &quot;in people&quot; need to remember how hard it is to be on the outside.  Some are really great about extending themselves, while others aren&#039;t so great.  And that&#039;s ok.  By try to remember how much anxiety you have when you go into any situation and you know no one.  Go up and say hi to random people, but also try to extend those conversations beyond a simple &quot;where the hell did all the moon pies go?&quot;  Ask them where they are from, what they do, what&#039;s their sign.  Essentially pick up a friend at code4lib.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just my two cents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem is partially in what Jay says and partially in what the noobs say.  </p>
<p>Noobs don&#39;t try hard enough because we&#39;re in a profession where people are inherently afraid to ask questions or say what they know (or don&#39;t know) and seem like an idiot.  After all we&#39;re paid to maintain things that we may know absolutely nothing about, but eventually we become experts on.  So as a Noob myself, I went forth and investigated the community, its practices, etc. and was able to insert myself and I feel like I&#39;ve been accepted.  But too be honest, if I hadn&#39;t investigated all of this in advance it would have been a completely different conference for me.</p>
<p>At the same time I think that the already &#8220;in people&#8221; need to remember how hard it is to be on the outside.  Some are really great about extending themselves, while others aren&#39;t so great.  And that&#39;s ok.  By try to remember how much anxiety you have when you go into any situation and you know no one.  Go up and say hi to random people, but also try to extend those conversations beyond a simple &#8220;where the hell did all the moon pies go?&#8221;  Ask them where they are from, what they do, what&#39;s their sign.  Essentially pick up a friend at code4lib.  </p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Jodi Schneider</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Jodi Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-21</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@abangert &quot;Either a significant number of attendees are feeling this way, in which case your perspective is not very helpful, or people aren&#039;t.&quot; Good point! Which is it, and how can we find out?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Emphasis of &quot;old-timers&quot; vs. &quot;first timers&quot; made me a bit sad. In part, conference attendance isn&#039;t the right measure. For instance, Eric Lease Morgan attended for the first time this year--so, technically a &quot;first timer&quot; though he&#039;s been managing the listserv for years.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This was my second year at the conference. Last year, I was really surprised at how many people I knew, since I do hang out in IRC.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I want code4lib to be open and accessible. I also deeply value the geeky, &quot;if you want it to happen, make it so&quot; way we interact and run the community. As we institutionalize, how that scrappy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I heard great things about dev8&#039;s use of screens a couple of days before the conference and thought about trying to project the backchannel this year. I&#039;m really interested in projecting it next year--though I want to think, also, about other ways to be accessible and open as a community. Ideas?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@abangert &#8220;Either a significant number of attendees are feeling this way, in which case your perspective is not very helpful, or people aren&#39;t.&#8221; Good point! Which is it, and how can we find out?</p>
<p>Emphasis of &#8220;old-timers&#8221; vs. &#8220;first timers&#8221; made me a bit sad. In part, conference attendance isn&#39;t the right measure. For instance, Eric Lease Morgan attended for the first time this year&#8211;so, technically a &#8220;first timer&#8221; though he&#39;s been managing the listserv for years.</p>
<p>This was my second year at the conference. Last year, I was really surprised at how many people I knew, since I do hang out in IRC.</p>
<p>I want code4lib to be open and accessible. I also deeply value the geeky, &#8220;if you want it to happen, make it so&#8221; way we interact and run the community. As we institutionalize, how that scrappy.</p>
<p>I heard great things about dev8&#39;s use of screens a couple of days before the conference and thought about trying to project the backchannel this year. I&#39;m really interested in projecting it next year&#8211;though I want to think, also, about other ways to be accessible and open as a community. Ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: MrDys</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>MrDys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-16</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My favorite discussion of backchannels and their utility is in this blog post and it&#039;s comments: &lt;a href=&quot;http://mamamusings.net/archives/2004/03/30/confessions_of_a_backchannel_queen.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mamamusings.net/archives/2004/03/30/conf...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Food for thought for next year...?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Of course, I&#039;m in the camp that has no problem with #code4lib and its comments.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite discussion of backchannels and their utility is in this blog post and it&#39;s comments: <a href="http://mamamusings.net/archives/2004/03/30/confessions_of_a_backchannel_queen.php" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://mamamusings.net/archives/2004/03/30/conf" rel="nofollow">http://mamamusings.net/archives/2004/03/30/conf</a>&#8230;</p>
<p>Food for thought for next year&#8230;?</p>
<p>(Of course, I&#39;m in the camp that has no problem with #code4lib and its comments.)</p>
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		<title>By: abangert</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>abangert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-15</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Would like to see something long these lines:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;8 things I learnt about using twitter as a participation tool by Olivia Mitchell: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.speakingaboutpresenting.com/audience/twitter-participation-presentation/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.speakingaboutpresenting.com/audience...&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would like to see something long these lines:</p>
<p>8 things I learnt about using twitter as a participation tool by Olivia Mitchell: <a href="http://www.speakingaboutpresenting.com/audience/twitter-participation-presentation/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.speakingaboutpresenting.com/audience" rel="nofollow">http://www.speakingaboutpresenting.com/audience</a>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: n00b</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>n00b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-14</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Basically, IMO, if you feel like an outcast n00b, YOU’RE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Either a significant number of attendees are feeling this way, in which case your perspective is not very helpful, or people aren&#039;t.   I think I could come up with an argument that the changes that would benefit the most alienated of the bunch would benefit even those who feel most at home, but my point here is that saying people need to try harder is like saying they need to be smarter, literally, like get a brain transplant or something else that simply isn&#039;t going to happen.  I mean, you could tell newbies in advance that they have to try hard, and maybe that would have some impact, but I doubt much.  More likely what will change how hard they try (whatever that means) is the experience of their first time, assuming they come back. If you see that people are feeling &quot;outcast,&quot;  you can either try to improve the experience of new attendees, or not care/see it as a good thing, or you can blame them and absolve yourself from any responsibility WRT the reality  of how people behave.    Your apparent choice here is itself alienating to me, since it is classic blame the user and their limitations.  Fulfills one major negative coder stereotype for me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Basically, IMO, if you feel like an outcast n00b, YOU’RE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH.&#8221;</p>
<p>Either a significant number of attendees are feeling this way, in which case your perspective is not very helpful, or people aren&#39;t.   I think I could come up with an argument that the changes that would benefit the most alienated of the bunch would benefit even those who feel most at home, but my point here is that saying people need to try harder is like saying they need to be smarter, literally, like get a brain transplant or something else that simply isn&#39;t going to happen.  I mean, you could tell newbies in advance that they have to try hard, and maybe that would have some impact, but I doubt much.  More likely what will change how hard they try (whatever that means) is the experience of their first time, assuming they come back. If you see that people are feeling &#8220;outcast,&#8221;  you can either try to improve the experience of new attendees, or not care/see it as a good thing, or you can blame them and absolve yourself from any responsibility WRT the reality  of how people behave.    Your apparent choice here is itself alienating to me, since it is classic blame the user and their limitations.  Fulfills one major negative coder stereotype for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Liza Daly</title>
		<link>http://blog.reallywow.com/archives/45/comment-page-1#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza Daly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.reallywow.com/?p=45#comment-13</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Modium&quot;? Model.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Modium&#8221;? Model.</p>
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